Episode 20: James Rydon

on Apple, Spotify, and other [: 00:00:30

Speaker 2: Good afternoon, James. How are you?

I'm good yourself. Yeah, very well. Thank you. Thank you very much for joining us for another session of secrets of success.

No worries. I did a little bit of convincing to get you on didn't I, so, uh, I appreciate you taking the time. Um, and we got a couple of

Speaker 3: And wanted, so yeah, ,

ere's a couple of key topics [: 00:01:00

Speaker 3: So, um, uh, I'm a partner and director at Eames. I lead our, uh, actuarial and, um, insurance risk, um, [00:01:30] function, which, um, predominantly focus on, SRO modelling and exposure management, uh, and then actuarial predominantly focused on the non-life general insurance market.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Fab. So I think we agree for people that aren't, for me with those markets, highly technical, specialized niche markets, aren't they?

all that side of things. So, [: 00:02:00

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. Cool. So I mentioned just now one of the key topics to talk about today is the, um, hiring onboarding and development of entry level recruiters. So lots of people have different terminology for it. We call them associate consultants, that entry level role or ACS. Yeah. And, um, I know you are very modest individual, but, um, I think agree you have had an overwhelming amount of success in bringing those people in at that level and bringing them up through the [00:02:30] ranks consultants, senior consultant, principal, senior principal, and turning, you know, juniors into some of the top billing consultants that we've got in the UK business at the moment. So that's to kind of set the scene for people listening and watching this, who aren't familiar with you. And today I just wanna get an understanding of how you go about doing that essentially. So if we start with the interview process initially, when you are interviewing ACS, what generally is your approach to interviewing an AC at entry [00:03:00] level?

tanding the sort of key, um, [: 00:03:30

Speaker 3: Um, you know, people that ask me the first question they ask is, um, you know, can I work from home? They're not gonna be right for the role mm-hmm , um, people that ask, um, you know, really in the next five years, where can I get to, or what sort of progression can I see, I get my [00:04:00] head down. I work really, really hard. Those are sort of questions you, you are interested in. And, and I suppose some of the best answers have been around, you know, I, I think I'm a, you know, I can handle certain resilience, but, and I like to rise to the challenge. What sort of things you think that, that would, you know, what sort of, what things would I have to overcome on a daily basis to, to make me successful? Um, it's a more insightful quite that you get are the ones that you, you possibly think that people are, um, thinking about things a little bit more because, you know, ultimately everyone ends up in recruitment.

: Um, not [: 00:04:30

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely makes a lot of sense. So two of the main things there around the preparation and the questions, and would I be right in thinking the questions and sort of summarize what you said there, that they kind of, the questions that are an AC or a candidate interview are asks you that's when you get that real insight into how their brain works and, and kind of then putting the pieces together and being inquisitive, which are [00:05:30] all the things you need to be to be a good recruiter, right? You're gonna ask a lot of questions. You're gonna probe candidates. You're gonna gather information and put the pieces together as part of your role. So I suppose we are seeing that as a skill through the interview process, even as well, as much as them sort of thinking it through as well.

ot think about it, it's it's [: 00:06:00

Speaker 2: So your advice, I suppose, if you're thinking about advice for other directors and managers, how ACS it's, it's kind of getting [00:07:00] past the, the buzzwords, isn't, it of I'm resilient, I'm hardworking and actually probing for the examples and the evidence to support that. Because if you know, whether it's through a TA team or a rec direct, you know, there is that level of prep that's given to ACS. I mean, and they have to Google online, you know, typical interview questions for recruitment role. Um, so it's getting beyond those buzz words, isn't it. And actually looking for the evidence to, to demonstrate those skills. Yeah. I

ut the interview itself. And [: 00:07:30

Speaker 2: Nice love that. Absolutely. Um, good stuff. So now we think about kind of the onboarding of, of ACS and that's, you know, obviously we have an AC program at Emes that supports you with that and that, you know, the, the L and D function that supports with the, with some of the training. So if we think beyond the kind of standard training and everything that, that we would support you with in L and D, how do you make sure you set ACS [00:08:30] up for success when they land onto that desk in the first kind of four weeks?

m, um, a bit of independence [: 00:09:00

Speaker 3: You need people to actually understand what it is to be an independent person within their, within their career. And as, um, that has to start from day one, you [00:09:30] can't, you can't have it whereby you give loads of flexibility to, you know, directors and people that have been doing 20 years, but you, you, you have associates working in a very restrictive way. So I think for me, I, I, I set out principles and, and, and sort of views as to, um, how things should be run. But then I like people to, you know, bring in their individual style and their, you know, their, their independence. And I said, sometimes that, that works out really would, well, people absolutely fly with that. Sometimes I think people, [00:10:00] um, aren't used to that because they've maybe had a structure whereby you know, university, you go to certain lectures at certain times where they've worked.

, to really, um, think about [: 00:10:30

Speaker 3: And to an extent you can, you can sort of teach that, but that isn't in great drive within an individual, which you'd hope you'd identify in, in the, in the interview process itself. So [00:11:00] yeah, I said, I, I think the first point is, is finding out how they, how they work and, and, and, and I suppose, um, building onto that, and I said, everyone is different. I, I work in a very different, you know, I work quite visually and I like lots of data. There are people that need things in different colors and all sorts of ways. Yeah. You say, this is what you use, and this is how you do it. It's for me to out the general principles and, and how we work as a team and the, the collaboration then the, the sort of minimums and then to sort of, [00:11:30] you know, embrace how they like to work and, and, and build that in. Yeah,

d to be able to trust people [: 00:12:00

Speaker 3: I, I wouldn't say it's more important, um, because I think it's always been that way. Mm-hmm , but I that's more relevant now. Um, okay. Yeah. You know, I, I think, um, I think the major thing that COVID is brought up is self motivation. I think being able to operate independently and being able to manage your [00:12:30] own desk and all the rest of it, you know, that that comes a process and a, and a, and a style. But then I suppose the, in a, you know, the, the levels, um, and the, the sort of, uh, the drive of an individual and the motivation, that's the bit that it gets tested. And I suppose the difficulty for us is, um, is around supporting that because ultimately, um, you know, working from home isn't for everyone, no being sat in whatever circumstances they have, you know, in their, in their home life doesn't necessarily match to [00:13:00] a really productive day at work for some people it will do for some it won't.

ut half a day or a day doing [: 00:13:30

Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. Makes perfect fix sense. Fabulous. So the, um, the other thing we mentioned about your market in particular, [00:14:00] and it's not just actuarial and, and, and cat risk and stuff that are like this, but extremely niche market, highly technical, very, the most candidate driven market I've ever been aware of in my 13 years in recruitment, where you've always got loads of jobs on, but it's going out there and finding the can, that can, that can be a struggle. So that's something that I'm keen to sort of learn a little bit more from you, uh, now cuz other people will operate in similar markets. How do you as a director and a manager of juniors, cause the experience guys are very familiar with it, you know, RAF and [00:14:30] Curtis in your team, they've done secrets of success sessions with me already and talked about their journey with it and their frustrations. But how do you, as a manager of that team, keep ACS motivated when all the jobs are there. I mean, I think you guys in COVID at one point had like 90 jobs between six of you, like so many jobs on and it's trying to find the candidates, which is ultimately at the beginning, the main part of an ACS role. Yeah. So when they're really struggling to find the council or even find people to speak to and everything, how do you keep them focused and motivated [00:15:00] as their director?

at to them about, I say what [: 00:15:30

Speaker 3: And I think what runs alongside that is that for, for an associate that does find a good candidate and brings [00:16:00] them to the table and allows me that that person wants to engage with them and, and look for work within the actual market. You can almost guarantee that, you know, that's, that person is going to get a job because there's so much so in a sense they can almost once they've got that person, the, the sort of that feeling of doing a deal is almost there. Not, not, you know, a deal's not done until it's done, but, you know, yeah, I know what you mean extend, but it's, it's the process of getting to that. And I think, you know, lots of the consultants we work now, obviously talk about, you know, sort of RA and curses. I think, [00:16:30] you know, RA has done a deal over can that she's been speak to about two and a half years.

checkin process whereby you, [: 00:17:00

Speaker 3: Yeah. Cause when you're just working day to day, you possibly don't understand that every conversation you have a candidate, your brain is automatically understanding a little bit more about the actual market or a little bit more about, you know, um, different personalities or, or the different between different [00:17:30] candidates. And I think, um, that's possibly where they, they can see and progression, but, um, we have been quite lucky in the market that our associates do make deals relatively quickly and therefore have to have these awkward conversations. But, um, but said any, any recruiter starting out, um, you know, the important thing is to learn and develop. And, you know, I've always said that the associate consultant, um, framework is, is a sort of training contract. It's there to really, you know, invest that time into [00:18:00] your career and spend doing as much research as much sort of, um, as much, uh, conversations with Candice, really putting in the time into, um, you know, working out what's a good call.

r head that, that, that need [: 00:18:30

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. There is some cracking advice in there for ACS. It's making me reflect. I wish I'd known all that now when I was an AC, but the, the couple of the things in there in [00:19:00] particular, the Wayne thing I've taken out of that. And I think, you know, ACS and directors alike thinking, watching and listening to this is that marginal gains piece. I think that's just such a powerful, because you know, we use, you know, activity, measures, KPIs, whatever you wanna call them. They're fairly, very achievable on a week by week basis, you know, CV sends and interviews and things that you would expect ACS to wanna achieve and milestones. But I suppose if you are operating in a really candidate driven market and, and candidate short market, then actually celebrating [00:19:30] the even smaller wins along the way. And those marginal gains of I've got someone to talk to me for 15 minutes, that I've been trying to get hold a hold of for, for two months. And they've not given me the time of day. And now they have, like you say, that's kind of a win in itself and it it's making people aware of that. So I think that's great advice, million

, oh, they're not gonna give [: 00:20:00

Speaker 2: Absolutely fantastic James look, loads of stuff for people to listen to, and take away and digest there and, and hopefully put into practice. So thank you very much for taking the time out for another session of secrets of success. That's right. Take care.

Speaker 4: My pleasure, thanks, bye.